Various Christian Metaphors

1. Those minds which are oriented around the metaphysical freewill assumption are "in Hell" or "in the kingdom of Satan" or are "fallen" and "unregenerate" (as long as they remain so oriented).

2. 'Hell' is also a *description* of fearful and often chaotic *experiential phenomena* of the intense mystic altered state.

3. After the first few mystic-state initiation sessions (classically, entheogen sessions), the mind's mental worldmodel still continues to revert to freewill thinking, after each session; the mind "falls back into reincarnation" or "falls once again back down into hell", needing further purifications in purgatory (mystic-state sessions). After further study and intense mystic-state experiencing sessions, the mind finally is able to retain no-free-will thinking even after a mystic-state session passes and ordinary state of consciousness returns.

4. In one of the later sessions, such as #7, in this session, just before the mind is finally perfected and fully and permanently regenerated (the mind's mental worldmodel is finally permanently transformed to no-free-will/no-separate-self thinking), the mind is forced into a difficult situation regarding the origin and stability of personal controllership, and is then lifted up when the divine way of thinking descends into the mind: this is allegorized in the Christian myth-mystic system as Jesus trampling the gates of Hell and pulling up the saints from Hell. The mind's egoic freewill delusion 'demon' or 'multiplicity demon' or 'logical-chaos demon' falls back down to be pinned forever in Hell, while one's higher, purified, divinized nature ascends to Heaven.

Hell is not the making of decisions, but the making of decisions under the delusion of metaphysical freewill. When in Hell, the mind makes decisions under the delusion of metaphysically free will. When in Heaven, the mind makes decisions under the corrected mental worldmodel of no-free-will.

For egoic thinking (freewill/separate-self thinking), the purpose or function of the idea of Hell is part of a Heaven/Hell reward and punishment system, suited for the lower mode of thinking, which is based on the assumption of freewill moral agency. A mind that is falsely shaped as freewill moral agent, holding the freewill mental worldmodel, more or less needs the idea, or naturally fits with the idea, of Heaven and Hell as reward and punishment after bodily death.

For the mystic regenerated mind, the naturally relevant conception of Hell and Heaven are, living under the delusion of freewill/separate-self thinking, vs. living under the corrected no-free-will/no-separate-self mental worldmodel.

Some mystics/gnostics agree with these views. These readings cohere well, logically and experientially. As an advocate of the great coherence of these readings, I maintain that the best of the mystics/gnostics agree with these views as being the most coherent and meaningful.

Michael wrote:

>> 3. After the first few mystic-state initiation sessions (classically, entheogen sessions), the mind's mental worldmodel still continues to revert to freewill thinking, after each session; the mind "falls back into reincarnation" or "falls once again back down into hell", needing further purifications in purgatory (mystic-state sessions). After further study and intense mystic-state experiencing sessions, the mind finally is able to retain no-free-will thinking even after a mystic-state session passes and ordinary state of consciousness returns.

Someone wrote:

>Could you eloborate on this? "To retain no-free-will thinking" : How do you define "retaining"?

Upon returning to the ordinary state of consciousness (relatively tight cognitive binding of mental constuct association matrixes), the mind after enlightenment is able to shallowly and intellectually recall and comprehend the no-free-will worldmodel that was discovered and experienced during the mystic altered state, but the no-free-will model is not vividly experientially present as it was during the peak window of the mystic altered state.

The standard series of initiations proceeds as follows:

1. Ordinary state. Egoic model is fully engaged. Transcendent model is completely unknown.

2. Mystic state session #1. Egoic model is available but relatively disengaged. Transcendent model is partly intuited and constructed, and is relatively engaged.

3. Ordinary state. Egoic model is fully engaged. Transcendent model is practically completely forgotten.

4. Mystic state session #2. Egoic model is available but relatively disengaged. Transcendent model is increasingly intuited and constructed, and is relatively engaged.

5. Ordinary state. Egoic model is nearly fully engaged, but becomes problematized. Transcendent model is basically forgotten, recalled in fragments only.

6. Mystic state session #3. Egoic model is available but relatively disengaged. Transcendent model is largely intuited and constructed, and is relatively engaged. As the mind becomes more familiar with the control-breakdown vortex, the mind is increasingly (from session to session) both attracted to its beauty, and increasingly terrified by its control breakdown threat.

7. Ordinary state. Egoic model is nearly fully engaged, but becomes heavily problematized. Transcendent model is recalled in increasingly numerous fragments.

8. Mystic state session #4. Egoic model is available but relatively disengaged. Transcendent model is largely intuited and constructed, and is relatively engaged. The mind is heavily focused on the control-breakdown vortex, but yet again runs away, praying only for ignorance and obliviousness to it, to restore the known-incorrect egoic model because it is at least viable and reliable for daily life and practical control stability.

9. Ordinary state. Egoic model is nearly fully engaged, but is thoroughly problematized and seen as dysfunctional. Transcendent model is recalled in increasingly numerous fragments and the mind is impatient to finally figure it out and consciously retain it as an available mental model, at least as a theoretical/rational set of principles, if not as an intense nonordinary mystic experiential mode carried into daily life.

10. Mystic state session #5. Egoic model is available but relatively disengaged. Transcendent model is almost completely intuited and constructed -- it is ripe and ready to blossom out from the midst of control-vortex fear. The transcendent model is relatively engaged. The mind is tired of running away from the truth about its dynamic control nature. The mind finally is willing to sacrificially destroy, for once and all, the egoic model. This willingness leads to understanding the great danger of control instability and the meaning of myth-religion, which leads to acknowledgement (true prayer) and immediate resumption of practical controllership. The transcendent model is now fully formed and rationally understood.

11. Ordinary state. Egoic model is nearly fully engaged in practice in day to day life, but is now recognized theoretically as a convenient illusion. Transcendent model is fully recalled in principle as a theoretical intellectual mental worldmodel, although it is not *experientially* present. In normal fully enlightened minds, the transcendent model is present intellectually but not experientially.

At the end of the series of initiations, the transcendent model might remain experientially as well as intellectually in some rare minds, but those are rare, abnormal minds and that is an abnormal type of final enlightenment state, which cannot be considered the normal goal of full enlightenment; it cannot be justifiably coveted and should not be seen as particularly valuable.

>Isn't it always necessary to resume the ego-delusion?

The ego delusion always returns experientially, but the mind no longer intellectually and rationally accepts it as an accurate view. The mind learns to consider the egoic mode of experiencing and thinking as a mere convenient illusion. For the normal enlightened mind when in the ordinary state of consciousness, the no-free-will model is not present experientially, but is only present intellectually, like recalling how to solve a math proof or recalling that one can see a trick image in two different ways.

>Or do you mean the understanding that it is necessary to resume the ego-delusion

The normal enlightened mind should accept that the egoic perspective is bound to re-engage as an experiential mode, but the consolation is that the mind can at least *intellectually* and somewhat abstractly recall the transcendent, no-free-will/no-separate-self perspectival worldmodel, and can remember, as a somewhat remote past event, the vivid mystic-state experience during which the transcendent model was fully experientially present.

Key concepts are 'relatively engaged or disengaged worldmodel', experiential presence or availability of a mental worldmodel vs. intellectual presence or availability of a mental worldmodel. I can intellectuall remember and recall what the transcendent experiential mode is like, as a memory, and I can *weakly imagine* having that experiential mode present now in its vividness, but I cannot will the full vivid presence of the transcendent experiential mode, the transcendent model.

>BUT that it of course *also* is part of gods infinitely reaching will which is determining everything/body in the universe. So one can still live with the block-universe-worldmodell (gained during mystic altered session(s)) even though one (again) regains pseudo-free-will.

The child thinks he has free will.

The initiate discovers he has no-free-will.

The perfected man knows that he only has pseudo freewill.

The enlightened person is conventionally said to have "true freedom", in an ironic and esoteric/magic sense -- the enlightened mind knows that 'true freedom' can only mean maximal practical freedom combined with the intellectual awareness of no-free-will.

Conventionally, this person is said to have "transcended Fate/cosmic determinism", and to have "ascended beyond the sphere of the fixed stars". But all those conventional sayings cannot be construed as a denial that the cosmos and all thoughts are timelessly frozen and fixed and all predetermined from eternity. Can one transcend fate? In some sense, yes; in some sense, no.

>> 4. In one of the later sessions, such as #7, in this session, just before the mind is finally perfected and fully and permanently regenerated (the mind's mental worldmodel is finally permanently transformed to no-free-will/no-separate-self thinking), the mind is forced into a difficult situation regarding the origin and stability of personal controllership, and is then lifted up when the divine way of thinking descends into the mind: this is allegorized in the Christian myth-mystic system as Jesus trampling the

gates of Hell and pulling up the saints from Hell.

>>The mind's egoic freewill delusion 'demon' or 'multiplicity demon' or 'logical-chaos demon' falls back down to be pinned forever in Hell, while one's higher, purified, divinized nature ascends to Heaven.

>Can you elaborate on what it exactly means to gain "permanent perfection"? Is it "just" a firm grasp of the theory of ego-death based on this theory itself as well as on mystic experiencing?

Yes. Permanent perfection is also known as incorruptibility, eternal life, immortality, perseverance of the saints, passage out of purgatory into heaven, nirvana/extinction of rebirths into body/matter/ego. Permanent full enlightenment is a matter of, while being in the ordinary state of consciousness, being able to fully *intellectually* recall and *rationally comprehend* the transcendent worldmodel which was formed and vividly experienced during the mystic altered state.

It is not, for normal typical enlightened minds, the ability to *vividly experience* the transcendent perspective at will, or everlastingly. The normal enlightened mind can only vividly experience the transcendent perspective during a mystic-state session, not during the ordinary state of consciousness. During ordinary-state, such a mind can only *intellectually* comprehend and remember the transcendent perspective, and can imagine the intense dynamics of the transcendent perspective.

A few minds might have the aptitude to vividly experience the transcendent perspective without end, but these are bonus, abnormal aptitudes, not important for normal minds attaining full enlightenment.

>I can't see quite what feature it is which separates the holy from the initiate. Is it not enough when the utter powerlessness of the ego is fully comprehended?

The most reasonable and simple and well-justified, least-conjectural definition of enlightenment includes:

o Full *intellectual comprehension* of the utter metaphysical powerlessness of the ego

o Having *fully experienced*, in the mystic altered state, the utter metaphysical powerlessness of the ego.

>And is it not necessary to resume usual egoic-thinking despite this insight?

It is necessary to resume usual egoic thinking as an experiential state and as a mental model engaged practically all the time in daily life during the ordinary state, but such an enlighened mind is able at will to intellectually recall the principles and weakly but completely and coherently imagine the transcendent experiential perspective by remembering what it was like when the mystic state was present.

>Of course, one knows better on some level, but the question remains how relevant the knowledge of this kind is. If it's a difference which comes to be a " difference, which is

>no difference after all " , what's the point beside the obvious?

What is the value or point of *anything* in life? Sexual climax and mystical climax are towering mountains that need no daily life to give them external jusitication as being of value. We cannot simply assume a radically utilitarian view in which each individual experience in life must be strictly measured by how it changes and elevates all of day-to-day life.

Enlightenment does not change everything, nor does it change nothing. Extremist views are not beneficial or appropriate; they mislead and impoverish life. We must neither tear down mysticism as worthless, nor see it purely as utilitarian for saving the planet and making daily chores blissful, nor elevate it so far up on a pedestal that we idolize enlightenment as the only thing of value and the only source of value in life.

Extremist thinking is impoverished thinking. We must have a reasonable, balanced view and ask what the role of enlightenment is in a real, rich, actual life. Many mystics state that mystic union is the be-all and end-all of life. That extremist view has some limited merit. Cynics state that mystic union can't save the world and make daily chores an everlasting bliss state, so into the garbage can with it. Avoid the common lack of a sense of balance.

The bursting of the lotus of enlightenment from the mud of delusion and mental confusion is the most profound experience to be had. Such an experience contributes a great deal to overall life, even though it does not blissify every act, every moment in day-to-day life. Just as sexual climax has its proper balanced role and contributes much meaning to overall life and day-to-day life, so does mystical climax.

Just as we would think it sick and unbalanced to consider sexual climax the goal and singlehanded redeemer and lone meaning-giver to overall and day-to-day life, so ought we think it sick and unbalanced to consider mystical climax and enlightenment.

This view I advocate is simple, specific, reasonable, balanced, justified, sound -- not pie-in-the-sky, not extremist. What do you want from life? What do you demand that enlightenment contribute to life? What preconceptions and expectations? The existentialist burden of the mature mind remains, as always. Like anything else in life, like any pursuit and activity, enlightenment means and contributes what you want it to mean and contribute.

What is the point of *anything*? How does *anything* "make a difference"? For any accomplishment you can think of, you could say "but so what, what's the point"? Assessing value and benefits of an accomplishment is a relative matter that depends on your own values. All things must pass, even the experience of enlightenment, or the experience of any other accomplishment, and for the grandest life, one may still ask "So what? Does it really matter? Does it really make a significant difference?"

To the hardcore mystic who only wants the experience of God, some accomplishment that most people think "changes everything" changes nothing.

How does one go about assessing "relevance" of an accomplishment such as enlightenment or wealth or sex? "Relevance" is a personal existential matter for each individual to work out for themselves.

>I also don't comprehend what it means " to pull up the saints from hell"

That is a standard Christian idea portrayed in icons, and a doctrine in some churches. Before his resurrection, Jesus stormed the gates of hell and raised up the Old Testament saints, including Noah, Adam, and Abraham.

As with all myth-religion, the most important meaning is a description of intense mystic-state experiencing. The mystic in self-control turmoil, upon realizing and bringing the mental model into line with its real dynamic nature (metaphysical puppethood and dependence on the Ground), experiences being lifted up by divine thinking, with practical controllership resuming, now qualified by enlightenment that such controllership is largely an illusion.

>> Hell is not the making of decisions, but the making of decisions under the delusion of metaphysical freewill. When in Hell, the mind makes decisions under the delusion of metaphysically free will. When in Heaven, the mind makes decisions under the corrected mental worldmodel of no-free-will.

>Well, but in truth, it does not make decisions. It thinks it does, but the idea is that it can't do otherwise but think what it has to think.

The mind makes decisions. The point of contention is the nature of the making of decisions. This "what is the nature of" construct is simplest and most useful.

Decisions are made in the mind -- what is their *prime* source? The unenlightened mind makes decisions under the delusion that it is a primary maker of decisions, a creator of decisions. The enlightened mind makes decisions with the corrected knowledge that it is only a secondary maker of decisions; the profoundly hidden Ground, like a hidden puppetmaster, is known to be metaphysically the primary maker of decisions.

Ego exists, but what is sense in which ego exists, and what is the sense in which ego doesn't exist?

The mind makes decisions, but what is the sense in which the mind makes decisions, and what is the sense in which the mind doesn't make decisions?

The will is free, but what is the nature of this freedom? In what sense is the will free, and in what sense is the will not free?

>>Before his resurrection, Jesus stormed the gates of hell and raised up the Old Testament saints, including Noah, Adam, and Abraham.

>Why should these saints be in hell in the first place ?

It's an official doctrine of the Middle Ages. I can explain it esoterically/mystically (that is, in terms of intense mystic-state experiencing and experiential insight), but first must find more about the doctrine -- should be easy, because it's an official doctrine.

Michael wrote:

>>>>Before his resurrection, Jesus stormed the gates of hell and raised up the Old Testament saints, including Noah, Adam, and Abraham.

Merker wrote:

>>>Why should these saints be in hell in the first place ?

Michael wrote:

>>It's an official doctrine of the Middle Ages. I can explain it esoterically/mystically (that is, in terms of intense mystic-state experiencing and experiential insight), but first must find more about the doctrine -- should be easy, because it's an official doctrine.

Ephesians 4:1-16:

>>>But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore it is said, "When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men."

Java Fusion wrote:

>>In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.

In Neoplatonism and Hermeticism, the minimum number of levels is 3: naive freewill, consciousness of determinism, and transcendence of the deterministic cosmos. Map any "down/up" movement along that ladder; Jesus' descent to the saints in Hell best maps between levels 2 and 3: fatally problematic consciousness of one's helpless embeddedness in cosmic determinism (self-control seizure), moving up to divine transcendent thinking ("being given the mind of Christ which descends to rescue you and redeem you, purchasing you back up to your metaphysical true home").

This view maps 'Hell' to "deterministic self-control seizure discovery", and Jesus descends from the trans-deterministic realm fully outside the deterministic cosmos, to come down to the high level where people are undergoing self-control seizure due to stumbling onto the discovery of the embeddedness of their thoughts in the deterministic cosmos (Metallica's Heavy Metal Acid Rock song "Trapped Under Ice"), lifting and fishing them up out of that Hell-realm.

Ephesians 4:1-16 continues:

>>>And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love.

Where is the canonical reference to a series of visionary-plant initiations for esoteric Protestants, comparable to Purgatory for esoteric Catholics? There are levels of angels, possibly levels of church members in the Protestant Bible. Paul differentiates hylics, psychics, and pneumatics, and mentions his own ascent to the 3rd or 4th heaven, meeting Jesus who came down to that level. There is a head vs. body distinction among the Christian community members.

There is also the system of stations of the Cross, but that seems like a Catholic scheme laid onto the gospels, actively picking out selected elements of the passion story.

______________________

Michael wrote:

>>>Before his resurrection, Jesus stormed the gates of hell and raised up the Old Testament saints, including Noah, Adam, and Abraham.

Merker wrote:

>>Why should these saints be in hell in the first place ?

Michael wrote:

>Jesus' descent to the saints in Hell best maps between ... fatally problematic consciousness of one's helpless embeddedness in cosmic determinism (self-control seizure), moving up to divine transcendent thinking ("being given the mind of Christ which descends to rescue you and redeem you, purchasing you back up to your metaphysical true home").

>This view maps 'Hell' to "deterministic self-control seizure discovery", and Jesus descends from the trans-deterministic realm fully outside the deterministic cosmos, to come down to the high level where people are undergoing self-control seizure due to stumbling onto the discovery of the embeddedness of their thoughts in the deterministic cosmos (Metallica's Heavy Metal Acid Rock song "Trapped Under Ice"), lifting and fishing them up out of that Hell-realm.

First the mystic attempts to ascend heaven as an egoic self. Then he sees truth and falls like a demon down to imprisonment in the pit of hell (fear of self-control seizure and loss of control). Then a miracle occurs, and he is rescued and lifted back up into heaven, not by his own personal power, but only by some radically remote hidden compassionate string-puller that is identical with the radically transcendent part of oneself, which lies utterly beyond the control of the personal part of oneself.

Yes, the divine compassionate rescuer is part of you, but no, that doesn't give you -- as personal controller agent -- power over it. The personal controller part of oneself cannot control the transcendent divine rescuer part of oneself, but is utterly dependent upon a rationally baseless miracle of compassion and power.

One fallacy used to falsely try to diminish entheogens is to say "they often instead of providing mystic experiencing, produce a negative experience" -- as though mystic experiencing is all positive. In fact, mystic experiencing is extremely familiar and involved with negative experiencing, of the hell realms prior to being fished out and lifted up, miraculously and supernaturally pulled up out of the turbulent chaotic storm, pulled out of the womb-imprisonment and given birth into the transcendent life.

Believe and you will do these miracles

Most miracle myths are clever metaphors for phenomena experienced during mystery-religion initiation, therefore they are related to the category of Jesus as Hellenistic mystery-religion rising/dying godman.

Given that the Jesus figure emphatically co-opted the hyper-inflated praise and honor of Ruler Cult, the miracle sayings could also be considered the equivalent of the great deeds of heros and emperors, in which case the miracle sayings could be considered part of the role Jesus as King (or anti-Caesar).

I walk on water.

I cast out demons by the legion.

I cure the insane.

I cure the epilectic.

I enable the paralyzed to walk.

I turn water into wine.

I give sight to the blind.

I lay down my life and take it up again.

I am born from a woman and I am born from my Father above.

I ascend into the kingdom of Heaven at the end of time.

Mexican Catholic retablos (oil paint on tin)

This modified URL shows all 81 retablos currently available for sale at this site.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-table=copy&-response=%2fpages%2f..%2fpages%2fgallery.lasso&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-skipRecords=0&-maxRecords=81&-search

I assume the Mexicans or Central American Catholocized Indians used a variety of entheogens in conjunction with Catholicism, inspiring these "icons" or rather, symbol-filled religious picture-diagrams. I don't even have a word for these -- they are not the same as Eastern orthodox icons or European religious paintings -- they are more explicitly symbolic, such as a cross containing various objects, almost an alchemical or Masonic explicit symbolism.

Standard pictures (arrangements/groupings of elements), and elements in retablos include the following. What is the origin of the "originals" of these pictorial symbol-arrangements? European paintings or icons?

I'm nearly certain the following URLs will quickly go out of sync. The best bet to see the correct pictures is to use the comprehensive URL above, then Find the picture name or inventory number in the page. Note to self: use Sent copy of this post, so URLs don't have carriage return in the middle.

Common combination: Rose & lily (lily = datura per Entheos mag v1#2). Revelation idea is "washing white robes in the red blood of the lamb".

Consider similarity:

rose = crown of thorns around pierced heart

white roses = lily-datura

white roses and red roses = lily-datura and crown of thorns around pierced heart

____________________________________

Baby Jesus is handing a flaming heart to a sinner who Virgin Mary/Queen of Heaven is lifting up from the flaming beastly jaws of hell. Jesus' left hand hands the heart; Jesus' right hand holds another heart, in front of his chest. The mouth and teeth of hell are like a gorgon (decaying death head grimace).

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=57&-search&-Token=Retablo

"N.S. de la Luz" by Augustin Barajas

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#L 0041

Empty skull in front of chest, holding crucifix with small literal body of Jesus on it

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=36&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San Francisco de Asis"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

5x7

Inventory#M 0370

Cross, Jesus, crown of thorns, INRI sign, pierced side, blood from side caught in one tiny cup -- from left hand into another -- from right into another -- from feet blood flows up to another tiny cup. Candle on either side -- seems to be equivalent to two crucified rebels, or sun and moon, or leg-crossed small guys next to Mithras.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=31&-search&-Token=Retablo

"El Cristo de Saucito" by the "Saucito Master"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

5x7

Inventory#M 0609

Empty skull on bible, holding crucifix with small literal body of Jesus on it, w/ INRI sign, holding lily/datura aimed like swords to heart

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=32&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San Luis Gonzaga" in original wood frame

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#M 0558

Sword piercing virgin's heart (per Homer, punctured heart = inevitable death, means the type of death given by encounter with unavoidable inevitability/Necessity/heimarmene)

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-table=copy&-response=%2fpages%2fdetail.lasso&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-skipRecords=61&-maxRecords=1&-token=Retablo&-search

Jesus on cross, pierced heart, crown of thorns, INRI sign, 3 women: Virgin with sword-pierced heart, woman embracing cross, and Mary Magdalene

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-table=copy&-response=%2fpages%2fdetail.lasso&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-skipRecords=61&-maxRecords=1&-token=Retablo&-search

"El Calvario con Maria Magdalena"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

6x8.5

Inventory#K 1046

Sheep emerging unscathed from furnace (perhaps picture is called "San Francisco de Paula") (the incorruptable "remnant" after the purgatorial purifying fires; compare Demeter's burning away the queen's son's mortality over a series of nights. Ruck & Heinrich's interpretation system could suggest this as the amanita cap heated to increase potency some sixfold times.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-table=copy&-response=%2fpages%2fdetail.lasso&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-skipRecords=74&-maxRecords=1&-token=Retablo&-search

San Francisco de Paula"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#J 0229

This copy also has two red flames on chest, and several other pictures have red areas near shoulders.

Apparently the two flames on chest theme is a symbol of the similar two flaming wings labeled "caridad" (charity, = gratuitous kindness, transcendent love) -- this might relate to the two candlesticks bracketing virgin Mary in some pictures.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-table=copy&-response=%2fpages%2fdetail.lasso&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-skipRecords=70&-maxRecords=1&-token=Retablo&-search

"San Francisco Paula"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#J 1202

Skull at foot of cross.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=49&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San Bonifacio Martir" (rare)

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#L 0353

Queen releasing the wrist-chained prisoner from prison.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=48&-search&-Token=Retablo

"Santa Eduviges" by Augustin Barajas

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#L 0414

Wrist-chained souls in purgatory.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-table=copy&-response=%2fpages%2fdetail.lasso&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-skipRecords=62&-maxRecords=1&-token=Retablo&-search

"Animas en Purgatorio"

Mexico

oil on wood

19th century

8x11.5

Inventory#K 0936

Flaming heart, holding literalized crucifix

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=67&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San Juan de Dios" (rare)

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#K 0048

Crown with cross atop, object-like spreading gown, resting on moon crescent, female, rayed halo, roses on garment, standing on pedestal, bracketed by two flaming candlesticks. Curtains above, with 0, 2, or 4 tassles.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=6&-search&-Token=Retablo

"N.S. de San Juan de los Lagos"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#N 0563

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=18&-search&-Token=Retablo

"N.S. de San Juan de los Lagos"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#N 0338

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=73&-search&-Token=Retablo

"La Virgen de San Juan de los Lagos"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#J 0548

This copy is different - monstrance, lily-daturas instead of flaming candlesticks, possible purple&gold grape&grain theme.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=43&-search&-Token=Retablo

"N.S. de San Juan de los Lagos" double-sided

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#M 0327

Similar to "N.S. de San Juan de los Lagos" is the praying head-topped cloaked body with crescent base, holding seemingly a combined rose/lily plant, holding crowned baby Jesus who also holds combined rose-lily, both hold a bead-chain. Bracked by rose vases. No curtain.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=46&-search&-Token=Retablo

"N.S. del Rosario" by the "Saucito Master"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

9x13

Inventory#L 0706

San Jose is male equiv. of "refugio", with lily holding baby Jesus who has cosmic globe w/ X. In this copy, like theotokos he is crowned (not sitting like theotokos though)

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=34&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San José" Bolivia

Bolivia

oil on metal

19th century

10x14

Inventory#M 0457

In this copy of San Jose, holds full-length thriasus pole -- top is like rose w/ lily-like leaves (combined lily-rose symbol), and only has ring halo.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=54&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San Jose & Guadalupe" by "Left-Handed Ptr"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x8.5

Inventory#L 0096

In this copy, San Jose has ring halo (not crown). Odd red/white splotches in thriassus, gives impression of amanitas against pine tree.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=71&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San José y la Virgen" by the "Halloween Skull ptr."

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x10

Inventory#J 1145

Flaming heart -- pierced, flames coming out pierce, crowned around with thorns, cross on top, flaming top.

I don't like this copy (it is like Ken Wilber's bunk denatured Christ-heart in the book Up From Eden -- like a thornless rose [aha, rose = crown of thorns around pierced heart]), because it omits the crown of thorns from the heart and omits the pierced side of the heart: (in this copy, he points at the heart, and he has nimbus halo)

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=37&-search&-Token=Retablo

"El Sagrado Corazon de Jesus"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#M 0365

I like this copy -- pierced heart, crown of thorns around heart, lamb licking blood (compare dog licking Mithra's bull), and also -- extra bonus points -- the heart is against an amanita-cap backdrop (golden inner flames, orange-red outer flames). (in this copy, he points up.) Nimbus halo.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=20&-search&-Token=Retablo

"El Sagrado Corazon de Jesus"

“Saucito Master”, Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#N 0249

In this copy, ring halo. Heart has crown of thorns and pierce.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=75&-search&-Token=Retablo

"El Sgdo Corazon de Cristo" by Concepcion Avila

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#G 0926

Picture “La Cruz de Animas” is particularly dense with symbols. Usually includes: cross containing or surrounded by instruments of torture including nails, rod with sponge, spear (latter two as tall X behind Jesus), love-dove, ladder, bag of 30 silver coins, slave whipping post, cock, a couple tong-like devices (hammer?, pliers?), dice, scourge; praying souls in purgatory under the arms of the cross, adam/tree/snake/eve, sun & moon, INRI sign, God atop lifting arm and hand on heart, monstrance (Amanita-cap stand), crowned skeleton piercing heart of tightly wrapped corpse, Virgin Mary w/ sword-pierced heart, grail cup, Michael archangel with scales of judgment & sword.

In this copy, there is no Michael archangel, God has 1 hand up, 1 hand on heart, cosmic globe in front of heart, no triangle.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-table=copy&-response=%2fpages%2fdetail.lasso&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-skipRecords=77&-maxRecords=1&-token=Retablo&-search

“La Cruz de Animas”

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

5.5x6.5

Inventory#J 0372

In this copy, Michael archangel is above the monstrance, God has both hands up, triangle behind head, no cosmic globe.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=42&-search&-Token=Retablo

"La Cruz de Animas"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#M 0341

In this copy, Michael is below the monstrance, God has 1 hand up, 1 hand on heart, cosmic globe in front of heart, triangle behind head.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=15&-search&-Token=Retablo

"Cruz de Animas" d.1930

Mexico

oil on tin

dated 1 930

10x14

Inventory#N 0405

Similar to the "La Cruz de Animas", "La Alegoria de la Redención" has sun/moon, Jesus on cross, INRI, piercings, God above raising his hands, love-dove descending, Virgin Mary with sword-pierced heart on left, Michael archangel w/ sword & scales of judgment on right, skull at base of cross, rod-sponge-vinegar and spear crossed behind cross, torture implements, adam/eve below cross, souls in purgatory under the arms of the cross.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=5&-search&-Token=Retablo

"La Alegoria de la Redención"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#N 0573

Baby Jesus leapt into arms of queen of heaven, his left foot often hidden, or sandal missing. Jesus' halo overlaps with and unites with Virgin Mary's halo.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=47&-search&-Token=Retablo

"N.S. de Refugio" by Bruno Sanches

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#L 0476

In "N.S. de Refugio", baby Jesus doesn't hold the cosmic globe w/ X.

This "Santa Ana" shows the lilies positioned the same as the multiple swords piercing Virgin Mary's heart in another picture.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=7&-search&-Token=Retablo

"Santa Ana"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#N 0562

Virgin Mary holding cross-removed adult body of Jesus, her heart sword-pierced, cock, some of the standard set of torture implements (implying the entire set) - here are shown 3 nails, hammer(?), pliers(?), removed crown of thorns, 11 stars around her head, cross on either side of her. No crescent at her feet. No cosmic globe with X in his hand.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=10&-search&-Token=Retablo

"La Piedad" by Concepcion Avila

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#N 0433

Queen of Heaven standing on crescent, angel holding up, 2-star bible, golden rays & red ring (almost amanita cap theme), crown, praying hands, roses.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=19&-search&-Token=Retablo

"N.S. de Guadalupe"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

5x7

Inventory#N 0255

Hand of Christ from clouds, pierced palm, blood into grail cup, 7 lambs drink from blood, 7 letters at bottom "drink" from base of grail, 5 figures above hand touching it, each have 1 foot visible.

Figure 1: 3 lilies pointed to heart like swords sometimes are. Circle halo. Hands crossed over heart. Woman w/ covered head.

Figure 2: Praying hands. Ray halo. Woman w/ uncovered head.

Figure 3: Left hand on heart, right hand two fingers up and two down, ray halo, stand on cosmic globe w/ +, young unbearded male.

Figure 4: Man w/ split beard, brown long parted hair, hands crossed over heart, olds "thriasus" like Dionysian pine cone on a pole -- pole w/ 4 roses against green ray leaves. Rayed halo.

Figure 5: Ring halo, man w/ beard, balding, long pole w/ handle, hands crossed over heart. light flame(?) on head.

Spear, pole w/ vinegar sponge, 1 other pole(?) Gender = FFmMM here.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=22&-search&-Token=Retablo

"La Mano Poderosa" by the "Master of the Refugio"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#N 0176

Interesting to compare this different Poderosa. The hand comes not from clouds, but from blood-filled grail-fountain w/ lambs drinking from the cup. Grain on left, grape vines on right (no lilies here). God is up in clouds, love-dove between. All 5 main "finger figures" appear to have ring halos here. Various other differences. Gender = MFmFM here. On the 4 adults, clothing color combinations is generally the same; easy to correlate between the two pictures. Only 4 lambs here.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=27&-search&-Token=Retablo

Who are the five figures? (Research could probably nail these down easily.) Could be father Joseph & virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene, Peter, John evangelist or John baptist, John's parents Elizabeth & Zacharias, Moses & Zipporah, Abraham & Sarah, Elijah. Possibly James, Paul; Adam & Eve. Out of these, perhaps the set is

Trumpet spitting blood from clouds, holding literalized crucifix, armband w/ blood (?), flagellant scourge, red robe w/ gold plusses and white inside -- like amanita cap, lion looking at him w/ rayed mane, 1 foot showing, scriptures in front of him, on knees, ring halo.

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=53&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San Geronimo" by the "Chunky Ptr."

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#L 0097

Holding literalized crucifix, looking at it, cradling empty skull near heart (in position of theotokos' infant).

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=29&-search&-Token=Retablo

"Santa Rita"

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

7x10

Inventory#M 0868

Almost gives impression of Amanita -- 1-leg table, gold leg, red tabletop, gold crowns like veil remnants. Pointing at tabletop. The 3 crowns seem to remotely imply Jesus on the cross bracketed by two lower crosses. Compare the sword with flaming tip to the flaming candlestick shown in many other of these pictures -- this suggests that these are synonymous symbols:

flaming candlestick

flame-tipped sword

spear in heart

sword-pierced heart

lily-datura pointing to heart

finger pointing to pierced heart

roses in vase?

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=68&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San Elias" (rare)

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#K 0047

Lamb in front of person's chest/heart. Apparently left figure with lamb on chest & piercings is Jesus, middle w/ heart & pointing up at his own head is God, right with dove(?) & hands crossed on heart is Holy Spirit. They stand on cosmic globe with +, but Jesus has one foot in space. Each person has triangle "halo".

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=78&-search&-Token=Retablo

“La Santisima Trinidad”

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x14

Inventory#P 0034

...suggests that these are synonymous symbols for "being made to spear one's own cybernetic heart with the flaming sword of Necessity/Heimarmene (timeless block-universe determinism)":

flaming candlestick

flame-tipped sword

spear in heart

sword-pierced heart

lily-datura pointing to heart

finger pointing to pierced heart

roses in vase?

I would say that the Virgin Mary (right side of below picture) has just been made to spear her own cybernetic heart with the flaming sword of Necessity/Heimarmene (timeless block-universe determinism).

http://www.historia-antiques.com/pages/Action.Lasso?-database=JCH_Web&-response=detail.lasso&-table=copy&-op=bw&type=Retablo&-maxRecords=1&-skipRecords=71&-search&-Token=Retablo

"San José y la Virgen" by the "Halloween Skull ptr."

Mexico

oil on tin

19th century

10x10

Inventory#J 1145

I added some book links and some possibly more stable links to images, including grail images, Christ in fountain of blood flagellating himself with grape vine.

Noticed similarity between lone soul in purgatory, sometimes shown almost like an egg in a cup or nest of flames, and the "Jesus in cup of blood" symbol in Grail art.

http://www.egodeath.com/retablos.htm

Logos, godman functionally equivalent?

The term and concept 'Logos' might be functionally equivalent to the 'godman' idea, serving to convey a particular version of the universal system of initiation and mental transformation. Logos, like the idea of godman, might be the initiation lifecycle pattern of switching from the egoic mental pattern to the transcendent mental pattern.

The life of an initiate follows a universal pattern that exists timelessly: first the rational creature thinks in the egoic mental framework, then switches to the transcendent mental framework. This lifecycle pattern is allegorized by the 'godman' idea.

The godman is initially mortal -- that is, the egoic mental framework is characteristically susceptible to self-termination, giving way to the more stable and ever-enduring transcendent mental framework. These mental frameworks each constitute two different conceptions of time, self, personal control, and spatial separateness.

The term 'mortal' or 'mortal man' has different emphasis than the notion of a particular historical individual. Was Logos a godman? Did Logos undergo the godman lifecycle, which is a characterization of the initiate's mental lifecycle? That lifecycle is the following standard initiation sequence:

o Child/animal mode thinking (the egoic mental worldmodel)

o Fasting

o Drinking sacred drink and eating sacred food

o Terror, chaos, self-betrayal, mental instability, and loss of sense of control-agency

o Sense of transcendent assistance, epiphany, and transformation of mental worldmodel

o Stable transcendent mental worldmodel.

The Logos idea is largely functionally equivalent to the godman idea -- in that controlled sense, the Logos is a godman. Without such qualification, it may be stretching terms to the breaking point to call the Logos a 'godman'.

Control-core as cave/womb; impure vs. chaste

Where is a man's womb located such that he can give birth to the savior child that redeems him? The cybernetic womb is the liver/heart. Animals were sacrificed in large quantity to provide a lot of divine writing to inspect. I suppose that the organs inspected were mainly the heart and liver. I think the liver may be read like the night sky. The stars control us through the liver -- this is evident on the principle of manifest similarity.

The pull that we feel on our puppet-strings during the religious peak state is a pull from above, from the heavens above. The deterministic stars pull on our liver, which is our cybernetic self-control heart. The liver and cave and Mithraic cavern and will and night sky are the same thing. This is the high mountain cave-womb in which the savior is born and in which he is reborn.

The cave is located between heaven and earth on a mountain of the god. The cave is the liver during the altered state. The cybernetic self-control heart of the savior is topped by a celestial cross and is encircled by a sacrificial-kingship crown and is speared by the lightningbolt arrow of time, and this red heart is the liver which resembles the night sky.

The prostitute Mary Magdalene let the devil penetrate her control core. The liver-heart is the organ the devil penetrates. The initiate copulates with the savior through the now purified liver-heart. The liver-heart is the sexual organ of union of the person and the divine; it is the bed on which one copulates with the divine to conceive and give birth to the divine savior child.

The Virgin Mary Magdalene copulates with the Holy Spirit via her cybernetic control-core; the Christ child is thereby conceived, and the Virgin Mary gives birth to the Christ child in the cave on the mountain of God. She holds the Christ in her lap, around her cybernetic core heart-liver. Virgin Mary is the higher mind/self, Mary Magdalene is the lower mind/self (the "son" that Jesus reunites with the "mother" from the cross).

This is all a psychodrama, therefore the initiate personally experiences all the roles: the initially uncomprehending apostles, the apostle Paul, God, the Christ child, the Christ on trial, the savior, the baptizer, the baptized, Mary Magdalene, Virgin Mary, Judas the betrayer, the men who crucified Christ, the demons, the judge, the collaborator priests, king Herod, and so on. Different aspects of the psyche map to the various characters.

Greek Myth and the Holy Family and the godmen are concerned with sexual unions of gods and humans, with the humans dying and being brought back to life, together with conceiving godmen. Magic plants and potions are also ubiquitous.

Dying or limping kings are common. I think the mythic king limps because the ego, as leg-like vehicle that carries the mind through life, is partly a broken, flawed system. This also conveniently maps to the single-footed mushroom, but in myth I'm slightly more interested in cybernetic self-control theory.

Jesus as astrotheology prophet

>Have you ever considered the possibility that the "life story" of Jesus in the New Testament is a "biographical prophecy" which points to the fate of our Sun, approx. 2000 years before the fact (one zodiacal age)?

>Lk:22:10: And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

>Is this perhaps indicating the vernal equinoctal Sun entering Aquarius, the dawning of this our age?

>You may find this link revealing: http://www.siloam..net/jenkins/5thsun1.html#top

I read Christ Conspiracy, which proposes that theory.

http://www.truthbeknown.com

The theory is correct, but insufficient for describing the main point.

Some say Christianity alludes to entheogens therefore entheogens are the secret that is revealed, and the point of it all.

Some say Christianity alludes to astrotheology therefore astrotheology is the secret that is revealed, and the point of it all.

I propose that Christianity, myth, religion, astrotheology, and entheogens all allude to ego death and rebirth, which is the point of it all.

I agree that "prophecy" must exist in some way. In keeping with my axioms and rules for belief upon which my theorizing rests, "prophecy" is true in these ways, at least:

o The sun will rise tomorrow.

o The constellations will cycle predictably.

o Given entheogens, ego will die and rise again.

o The crops will die but rise again.

o The moon will go black but will shine again in 3 days.

o A rock thrown up will fall down again, I prophecy.

Christ Conspiracy is dominated by astrotheology without being centrally focused on primary religious experiencing.

If some astrological prophecy says Jesus the Sun will return right about now, and someone publishes a breakthrough theory of cybernetic ego death and transcendence right about now, it's just a cosmic coincidence.

Few scholars of Christianity have any real feel for the intense mystic altered state and how it has been metaphorically allegorized in all religious myth.

High and low meaning of Judas; degrees of coherence

>>This is why the Eucharist is the absolute center of the liturgy and the central pivot-point leading to Jesus' crucifixion, when while eating and drinking at the last supper, Jesus commissions Judas to betray him.

>So what is the higher meaning of this? Jesus as the Cosmic Ruler (master of puppets) commands Judas to betray him?

>Also, the lower meaning does not make sense. Why should Jesus elect someone to be betrayed??? Why does he want to be betrayed at all? This is strange because usually both interpretations should make sense. Here, the lower just doesn't make sense.

There is a certain sort of coherence to low-level Christian thinking, though it is fraught with problems -- more problems than the relatively consistent high-level interpretation. The lower mind is accustomed to fudging the gaps, and there is always recourse to "It's a mystery that is beyond the comprehension of the sin-clouded mind."

In high myth-religion, all the characters are aspects of the initiate's psyche. Judas, Jesus, Mary Magdalene, Virgin Mary, King Saul, King David, Absolom, Balaam, Beloved Disciple, Lazarus, the Rich Man, the leper, the blind man, the devil, the demons, Peter, the woman at the well, Jesse, Jacob, Adam, Eve, the serpent -- all are aspects of the initiate's psyche.

So the question is, what aspect of the psyche does Judas represent? Judas represents the egoic mind's interesting, innate and ultimately divine potential for self-betrayal. Judas is the self-betraying potential of egoic, personal self-control. The mind in the experienced mystic state learns how to pit self-control system against itself catastrophically, so that the mind discovers how it can make its self-control contradict and cancel-out its own logic and power.

Here the mind splits into a transcendent aspect, in some sense a "higher controller", and a lower aspect, which is mundane, ordinary self-control. The latter is "Judas", the former is "Jesus". Each initiate must commission their own inner Judas-nature to betray the actual logical flaws of personal self-control, for the mind to kill the delusion of the egoic personal center of control.

Mystic-state dynamics are very logical, but the allegory layer over them is always a leaky abstraction. Egoic thinking is also a leaky abstraction: it normally works well enough, but it works imperfectly, and when the mind carefully studies why the egoic self-control logic works imperfectly, this can lead to enlightenment.

Higher rationality is perfect in some way, but the mythic allegorization layer, at least in the Christian system, is imperfect even when fully understood as a model of transcendent insight and initiation dynamics. The Christian system is designed as a two-layer meaning-flipping system, so it is that much more interesting and tricky to make both the higher interpretation and the lower interpretation watertight.

What does the Judas character mean in the lower meaning-mode? It's clear, everyone knows, that when Peter has the Beloved Disciple ask Jesus "who will betray you?", Jesus answers, "The one to whom I give bread." Jesus gives bread to Judas and actively tells Judas, "Go do what you are going to do; do your thing; do what you exist to do; carry out your designed role; be what you are; manifest your nature."

This is not misunderstood; it's clear that Jesus tells Judas to betray him. There is no debate about that among the low-level Christians. The only question for them is, *why* would Jesus do that? The low answer is that Jesus accepted the will of God, no matter what, and knew that this betrayal is part of God's plan because God had determined since forever that this crucifixion would happen as God's way of saving sinners.

It was God's will that Judas do his thing, and God's will that Jesus indicate full acceptance of Judas' action and its consequence by actively commanding Judas to do what God had willed to happen, what God had willed Judas to do as part of the plan. Even when bad things happen to the Jews, everything is part of God's plan. Low-level Christian thinking is used to this way of thinking and accepts what coherence it has.

Low religion isn't totally incoherent; it's coherent overall, in practice, as a practical mode of mental operation. Egoic thinking is inherently based on sand, a weak foundation of confusion. It is a house that holds together under mundane conditions, but not under the storm of loose cognition.

The child's thinking is workable and useful for the conditions encountered by the child, but fails when encountering broader conditions such as the loose-cognition state. The standard religious death and rebirth metaphor is based on this inherent failure-potential. The mental worldmodel jumps from a less-coherent version to a more-coherent version.

When Jesus gives food to others, their eyes are opened. He (or Mary "beloved disciple" Magdalene in one portrayal) gives food to Judas.

After the book Mary Magdalene: The First Apostle, there is no doubt about it at all: there are two heatedly opposed traditions clearly reflected even in the canon: the grassroots Mary Magdalene "sacrament of redemption" tradition versus the top-down Peter "obey your assigned bishop" tradition. These can naturally be thought of as the two paths, the path of truth and the path of falsity.

Who brackets Jesus at the last supper? Mary "the most beloved disciple" Magdalene and Peter. Who is across from Jesus, receiving bread from him (in many portrayals)? Judas, who, like all the figures, represents aspects of the initiate.

Judas: Images of the Lost Disciple

Kim Paffenroth, 2002

http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0664224245

Mary Magdalene, The First Apostle: The Struggle for Authority

Ann Brock, 2003

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674009665

There are various books about the interesting figure of Judas.

'Asceticism' Is Metaphor for Abandoning Belief in Freewill. Fasting as Penance vs. Potentiating Entheogens

>>Religious methods and systems basically all have double-meaning.

That cannot be emphasized enough. There is an entire universe of meaning-shifting. *Everything* must be completely remapped; only a firm taking it all the way suffices for understanding religious metaphor. Religious metaphor is based on fullest possible deceit of double-meaning, of most fully as possible appearing to mean one thing, while as fully as possible actually meaning a very different thing.

Ordinary levels of metaphorical intensity fall short because religious metaphor is about *extreme*, maximal meaning-shifting from one slyly constructed entire near-watertight system of meaning, to a radically different sophisticated network of meaning -- the farther apart and more clever and systematic the wholesale meaning-shift is, the better, according to such metaphor mastery.

The more elaborate and misleading to the uninitiated, the better, with extremes such as infinitely complicated schemes of alchemy (per Dan Merkur's two entheogen books) that only a person who is enlightened *and* informed about the puzzle-solving conceptual language can possibly divide into the trickster-added junk and the 1% that reveals the trickster's enlightenment. It's like a pop song that is completely shallow then suddenly has a couple lines that prove absolutely that the writer is enlightened and a master of the poetry techniques.

One example is 'sin and salvation'. To the uninitiated, an entire huge network of meanings is deliberately set up to completely mislead the uninitiated into reading 'sin and salvation' in a freewill moralist sense.

To the initiated, a radically different network of meanings is instead built up; the goal is as a game to mislead the uninitiated extremely as much as possible, while clearly revealing the higher, counter-network of meaning to the initiated -- *systematically*, skillfully, and cleverly, as though the clever enlightened poetic mystic himself is busy working with God to push people apart into two groups, two races, two species: the sheep and the goats, the higher and lower thinkers, those who are tricked by egoic thinking in conjunction with the lower meaning-network, versus those who are awakened to the illusion in egoic thinking and the systematic higher meaning-network in mystical metaphor.

>>This is out of necessity, to educate those in transformation and protect/delude those not "ready" to meet with Fate, to meet their death-in-life. Most religious themes and texts are about high religious experiencing, mystic cognition, and the mystic-state experience of Fate and not about methods (asceticism, meditation) or historical special personas (Jesus, Buddha).

>>To mimic the switch the mind makes when going from freewill-cognition to fate-holiness this transition is simulated in the understanding of religious themes. Thus religion, with its 2-tier system of understanding, can be said to be a replica of the mystic-cognition-switch itself and thus be perfect as a unit: the low meaning is elevated and transformed by the high meaning. Asceticism, in its truest and most encompassing and perfect sense, refers to the surrender of one's belief of being a freewill-agent.

>>Asceticism means foremost some kind of abandonment, also surrender.

We should treat the writings about ascetics as largely mystic trickster fiction playing on this meaning-shift, rather than literalist reports of actual ascetics. Many write with tongue in cheek about asceticism, actually referring to asceticism as metaphor for the repudiation of the freewill delusion. If thine arm prevent you from entering Heaven, cut it off; but what actually prevents you from entering Heaven is your freewill delusion: cut it off; arrest its reign and affix it to spacetime.

>>Asceticism isn't actually about enlightenment by restriction of worldly things or by reduction of ingested food (though, reduction to what kind of food?)

A main metaphorical allusion of "asceticism" is to take the technique of fasting before entheogen ingestion and frame it in trickster fashion (to trick and lock out lower thinking from understanding it) as pious fasting to make oneself suffer. The mystic to himself emphasizes fasting as a way of potentiating visionary plants, but to the uninitiated, emphasizes fasting as a way of making oneself suffer piously.

>>The most-encompassing act of asceticism is surrender of one's belief in being one's own will-giver. Thus stories about men which by method of 'asceticism' became enlightened/holy have to be re-viewed.

>>The method of asceticism like the doctrine of Christianity is designed to be understood in different senses by holy and fallen men. Both of them can make sense out of it, but it's a complete different understanding: One promotes one's belief in one's ego-willpower by telling the ego to be able to reach perfection by its own will (thus being a self sufficient being, independent of Above).

>>The other focuses on the most holy thing: act of surrender of willpower (by power from Above) Also note , the low conception describes that *which in truth describes the mystical cognition* as being method. That which is Result is described as being method. Thus, one not aware a-priori of the *true* method (ingestion of visionary plants) never will be able to decode the *true* meaning of asceticism: *not* as referring to a method of becoming enlightened but rather *to enlightenment itself*.

>>Thus mystics could freely communicate *true* enlightenment and still leave non-initiates in the dark. They achieve this extremely different understanding by one primary trick: To non-initiates they promote the thought that asceticism=method, initiates are, by oral teaching, made aware of the true meaning of Asceticism. Christianity is not about some historical Jesus guy and his followers, but rather, it is all about mystical state experiencing.

The divine mode of thinking descends into the person's mind, enabling them to miraculously walk on water through transcendent faith in the Ground of Being instead of sinking in the chaotic storm of self-control seizure. The person is lifted up by the separate divine being Jesus but the man's higher self and thinking is also united with divine Jesus or the one divine mind; oneself is fished out of the deterministic prison by one's own action *but* the latter "oneself" is that *part* of oneself which is nondually one with the transcendent unity realm.

Polytheism is evil (separate-self delusion)

Puzzle: Polytheism is bad and demonic. Monotheism is the righteous way.

Solution: Egoic minds are polytheistic: they make an idol out of each ego that they imagine to exist. Each presumed ego amounts to a separate self-willed sovereign agent, who pulls his own strings. Discovering that there is no separate-self, is discovering that there are no separate-selves, in the plural. Either there is one God only (no-free-will/no-separate-self thinking), or there are as many gods as there are egos (freewill/separate-self thinking).

Trick/pun/joke/riddle-key: redefine "polytheism" from familiar view ("worshipping a carved idol") to "separate-self = false-god". Thus the ego is like a carved idol that one makes and then worships.

Bridechamber mysticism

I have proposed that the sacred marriage in Christianity is between the mind's lower, freewillist thinking, now recognized, redeemed, and justified, and the mind's higher, determinist worldmodel, newly revealed by the Holy Spirit that resides in the entheogenic sacrament of redemption. This view is not incompatible with Nelson Pike's experiential explanation of bridechamber mysticism.

Bridechamber mysticism is mentioned in the New Testament and is explained in terms of experiential phenomena in the book:

Mystic Union: An Essay in the Phenomenology of Mysticism

Nelson Pike

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0801499690

May 1994

How is mystic experiencing like sex? The Ground of Being penetrates and enwraps the mystic. The mystic is active and passive, and is stimulated and excited, even drawn into full union against their will as the will is consciously taken over by the Ground.

This Middle Ages mysticism moves from the prayer of quiet, to rapture, to full union.

o In the prayer of quiet, the mystic senses the nearness of Christ or God.

o In Rapture, the mystic experiences uniting dualistically with the Ground, mutually interpenetrating (like a sponge saturating with water) but retaining a distinction between individual and God/Ground.

o In Full Union, dualistic interpenetration gives way to the experience of unity and oneness; individual and God seem as one -- but it is doctrinally debatable whether they are, or become, one.

These three types or degrees of mystic experiencing can all be called "theistic mysticism", against Zaehner who tries to assert that real Christians characteristically have theistic *experiences* while non-Christians characteristically have the deist or cosmic nondual type of mystic experiences. Pike shows that orthodox Christian mystics have both theistic and nondual mystic experiences.

Zaehner finds Aldous Huxley's entheogenic (mescaline) mystic experiencing abhorrent because it does not require moral effort -- supporting my thesis that low religion is concerned with conventional moralism, while high religion is concerned with transcending conventional thinking about moral agency.

Other books that cover Gnostic bridechamber mysticism:

Elaine Pagels

The Gnostic Paul

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1563380390

Jesus and the Goddess

Freke & Gandy

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609607677

Premonition, ESP, prophecy

>you have stated you do not believe in psychics, premonition, or predicting the future. Do you personally believe that some psychics do not have a talent?

I have a general stance and belief that has been an essential axiomatic foundation for successfully cracking the code of religious myth.

I formally reject miracles and precognition. If the end of the world is like the book of Revelation, that is because of the flexibility of metaphor and because the politics of empire and resistance is largely the same then and now. In practice, accepting magic and precognition prevents developing transcendent rationality. This is why I am dogmatic about having a principled rejection of the historical accuracy of religious scriptures.

People want to know the easiest way to enlightenment, transcendent knowledge, self-knowledge, and ego death and rebirth. Here is the easiest way: commit to rejecting all magical thinking, including magic, precognition, spirit creatures, heaven and hell, reincarnation, and scriptural literalism.

It *follows* from this principled rejection that, in principle, I maintain that all psychics are fakes, charlatans, deluded. However, I feel it is irrelevant and unprofitable for me to consider whether a particular prophet or psychic is genuine -- this move is equivalent to Ken Wilber who has a slot in his Integral Theory for magic: it is sort of a lower degraded shadow of transcendent mental processes and insights.

Magic is the degraded, lower, literalist version of myth -- the lower mirror of the higher. I agree with Wilber in his rejection of perhaps 95% of New Age as being pre-ego, pre-rational, rather than transcendent above ego.

Great Mother religion is a literal, bloodthirsty, degraded, lower mirror of the Great Goddess religion.

>I have heard stories

You should consider the many more, untold, stories of failure which you *haven't* heard (selective reporting).

I *am* ready to believe that a particle pair can be connected across space instantly (EPR/Bell theorem; David Bohm) -- that doesn't conflict with timeless block-universe determinism -- but that this can't be used to send signals.

>from close friends of mine who have used psychics or mediums, and they stated some of the top rated physics knew things they should not have known. If it isn't possible to predict the future what do you consider intuition to be? Intuition is especially developed in dogs and cats who throughout history have sensed impending danger and warned their owners.

I believe that all such things have explanations -- often physical, sensory, or logical -- other than precognition and magic intuition.

>I'm interested in your beliefs regarding the fact that premonition does not really exist. I would also be interested in your thoughts of Nostradamus? What do you think of visualizing, affirmations, and other methods of creating and manifesting the future?

For the purposes of egodeath, there are two kinds of thinking: magic thinking, and rational thinking. Magic thinking is the realm of the psychic and the metaphysically free will; rational thinking is the realm of entheogen myth and ego transcendence and the metaphysically frozen-in-time will.

Insofar as predictions turn out to be correct, or visualizations of cybernetically steering toward a planned goal are successful, such success is always to be attributed to ordinary rational dynamics of the mind and world, never to magic, spooky psychic effects.

My point and my purpose is not so much that psychic effects are false and rationality is true, but rather, that in practice, the type of thinking associated with the realm of the psychic actively prevents the development of the type of thinking that is associated with transcendent rationality and ego transcendence. If your #1 goal is to develop transcendently advanced rationality and transcend the egoic mental model, I strongly advise you to reject in principle all notions associated with the psychic realm, but to affirm that there exists a sober and unambiguous rational explanation of religious myth in terms of entheogen metaphor combined with fully developed rationality.

Child spirituality is that of the psychic realm; adult spirituality is that of the true mythic realm. If you want to believe in the psychic, then to be consistent you should also believe in separate-self, the metaphysically free will, the truly open future (open in itself not just with respect to our detailed knowledge of it)

Psychic thinking is a degraded bastardized cargo-cult monkey imitation of the profound, transcendent, logical realization that the future is timelessly frozen and pre-existent and closed.

If something psychic is true, the overall theory I'm defining remains true. The important thing is to group ways of thinking into a higher and lower system and seek to rise above the lower. Most spirituality is an incoherent tangle of pre-rational magic thinking and trans-rational intuition. That intuition is a reflection of the fact that our minds are designed to follow an archetypal sequence of developmental stages from standard prerational thinking, to egoic thinking, to transcendent, trans-rational thinking.

I caution about Wilber's term "trans-rational". Enlightenment is completely rational; fully developed rationality combined with sophisticated use of entheogens reliably produces enlightenment. The mind only "transcends" rationality in the same sense that pure awareness "transcends" rationality. Most of all, I absolutely reject any insinuation or assertion that enlightenment is irrational.

The only way to get to enlightenment is *through* rationality, *by* seriously applying rationality. Wilber's system is legitimate *if* "trans-rationality" is taken to mean the view I promote here. For all practical purposes, his term "rationality" means merely egoic thinking. Enlightenment is essentially rational and it would never occur to me to call it "trans-rational" or to say that enlightenment transcends rationality.

Wilber's manner of speaking on this subject is misleading and is bound to be read by pre-egoic spiritualists as an invitation to reject and disparage rationality, when what they need to do is -- as he emphasizes and I emphasize much more -- fully commit to rationality and understand that enlightenment is essentially rational. Enlightenment *is* rationality; egoic thinking is illogical confusion and magic thinking.

Erotic Metaphor

>>We should invite imaginative hypotheses

>>Does imaginative hypothesis-development occur in this [strictly moderated JesusMysteries] discussion group...?

>I have a novel proposal ... mapping theology on autoerotic fetishism. ... it is sufficient to explain most symbolism, and appears to be the correct domain to ground His metaphors.

I think an excellent necessary principle of exegesis is multiplicity of meanings. That is a major way myth works. There are usually multiple mappings, multiple meanings, multiple explanations -- the more, the more potent the symbol-system. "The correct..."? Often, it's more a matter of "A correct...".

We have an abundance or overabundance of correct exegeses. In the case of Hellenistic myth, I think there are as many main meanings as there are levels of initiation in some systems. You could make a list of interpretations and then rank them by potency. No one interpretation would stand very far above the rest.

Additional proposed interpretive systems are very helpful and warrant comparative study.

Glenn Scheper wrote:

>Available online at http://www.antelecom.net/~scheper/heroic.pdf or an MS Word file at http://www.antelecom.net/~scheper/heroic.doc and as HTML (with continual further annotations) in the ZIP file at http://www.antelecom.net/~scheper/theword.zip 2001-06-04.

The night before the initial message of this thread, it struck me how important it is to investigate ancient mythic views on the phallus, castration, eunuchs, fertility, sacrifice, life-sustaining substitution, and circumcision.

I am circumcised, but who can really explain *why*? What is the mythic reasoning behind that? Circumcision: what's up with that, really?

I am forming some hypotheses about our power of creation, self-creation, immortality or transcending time through offspring, substitute sacrifice, mushrooms, lack of control over the will and the body, matriarchal religion, Attis' castration, parading the phalllus, being afflicted by permanent arousal, and other such topics. Chris Bennett's book Sex, Drugs, Violence and the Bible investigates this direction; you should read it. For example, he suggests the dancing around the golden bull is a circle of joined men. He suggests the Hebrews tried to out-procreate other groups, and were fertility maximizers with an originally sex-based religion.

This investigation of everything related to eunuchs would be shocking. Eunuchs were considered the most holy by some. Why? What did it *mean* to sacrifice part of oneself? Was there a single main meaning, or a cloudy complex of associations? The meaning of the eunuch, and associated topics, is evidently an important, possibly key area that must be investigated.

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Michael Hoffman [mailto:mhoffman~at~egodeath.com]

>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:28 PM

>To: egodeath~at~yahoogroups.com

>Subject: RE: [egodeath] Another pole apart: a semantic explanation

>>> We should invite imaginative hypotheses

>>> Does imaginative hypothesis-development occur in this [strictly moderated JesusMysteries] discussion group...?

>>I have a novel proposal ... mapping theology on autoerotic fetishism. ... it is sufficient to explain most symbolism, and appears to be the correct domain to ground His metaphors.

>I think an excellent necessary principle of exegesis is multiplicity of meanings. That is a major way myth works. There are usually multiple mappings, multiple meanings, multiple explanations -- the more, the more potent the symbol-system. "The correct..."? Often, it's more a matter of "A correct...".

>We have an abundance or overabundance of correct exegeses. In the case of Hellenistic myth, I think there are as many main meanings as there are levels of initiation in some systems. You could make a list of interpretations and then rank them by potency. No one interpretation would stand very far above the rest.

>Additional proposed interpretive systems are very helpful and warrant comparative study.

>>Available online at http://www.antelecom.net/~scheper/heroic.pdf or an MS Word file at http://www.antelecom.net/~scheper/heroic.doc and as HTML (with continual further annotations) in the ZIP file at http://www.antelecom.net/~scheper/theword.zip 2001-06-04.

-- Glenn Scheper

Michael wrote:

>>I am forming some hypotheses about our power of creation, self-creation, immortality or transcending time through offspring, substitute sacrifice, mushrooms, lack of control over the will and the body, matriarchal religion, Attis' castration, parading the phalllus, being afflicted by permanent arousal, and other such topics.

>>Chris Bennett's book Sex, Drugs, Violence and the Bible investigates this direction; you should read it. For example, he suggests the dancing around the golden bull is a circle of joined men. He suggests the Hebrews tried to out-procreate other groups, and were fertility maximizers with an originally sex-based religion.

Chris wrote:

>I'm glad you are enjoying the book, there is a lot on phallus worship throughout the text, and the early gnostic Christian material is particularly interesting. Especially in reference to auto-erotic rites.

Inversion of 'sheep/goats' in Satanic allegorical metaphor

In Revelation, 'sheep' means no-free-willists, while 'goats' means freewillists; Reformed theology (systematic dogmatics) supports this reading. The enlightened esotericist can prove mastery of allegory by reversing these metaphorical labels, disparaging vulgar adherents of junk Christianity as mindless 'sheep', while good enlightened and perfected Satanists are superior independent-thinking 'goats' who have pursued personal will power through to the end, blossoming into enlightenment about no-free-will.

This provides one reason to disparage 'Jesus' and elevate 'Lucifer': as a way of proving full mastery of metaphorical allegorism, by skillfully assigning the principle of consciousness about no-free-will to the Lucifer figure, while assigning the principle of deluded freewill and its concomitant conception of moral agency to the Jesus figure.

Ego sacrifice as saving spiritual action

>I find your writings very interesting, creative and thought-provoking. You seem very well-educated. You describe the Catholic doctrine as one centered around the distribution of wealth to the church in exchange for the cancellation of sin. I can see why one could derive that conclusion, although it presupposes that an institution of this size, power and influence could mastermind and carry out such a conspiracy. Definitely far-fetched. Certainly the Catholicism has suffered historically from corruption, which ultimately gave rise to the Lutheran Church. So I guess one could argue that it's really no surprise that they're back in the headlines, albeit several centuries later. Indeed, there is inherent conflict one has in practicing this faith.

>What I don't truly understand, however, is your characterization of Protestant Christianity. Here's what you say:

>"Salvation is through purely spiritual actions."

>This is total non-sense. Nothing could be further from the truth. The whole basis of the new testament is the new covenant -- the departure from the legalism that existed prior to Christ. Time and time again, Christ himself or one of his many disciples says in the bible that salvation is not through actions (as kept on a scorecard in heaven) but through the simple belief and trust in Christ. "For it is through grace that you are saved, not from works so that no man may boast." Recognize that bible verse?

>For your information, there are only three things, you truly need to do to receive salvation:

>1) Believe in Christ

>2) Repent your sins

>3) Be baptized into Christ

>It's amazing that you could take something so simple and complicate the hell out of it. Realize the kingdom is open to you. I encourage you to read the bible and study its facts (or read the book, "The Case for Christ") before you jump to such bizarre conclusions. May God's grace be with you.

>P.S. What do the lyrics for the Rush song, "Xanadu" mean?

Some leads about Xanadu:

http://eserver.org/poetry/kubla-khan.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=coleridge+opium+xanadu

re: Salvation is through purely spiritual actions.

To even consider writing a reply, I'd need to see the context in which I wrote that, but I'm not inclined to search for it at the moment. I definitely wrote that a year or two ago and have read a lot since then.

I've been making a lot of progress on my theory of the history of Christianity, including:

o No-free-will and inadvertant Protestant devil-worship; doctrinaire Protestants *preach* no-free-will but *practice* freewill assumption, retaining the satanic freewill assumption in their heart -- they are goats pretending to be sheep

o The Gnostic tradition as the unofficial Catholic tradition; Gnostic esoteric mysticism has been vastly more influential than the officials admit. (I'm using 'Gnostic' very loosely and inter-religiously here, per the book the Jesus Mysteries).

o Problem of Pluralism: Jesus *is* the only way to the kingdom of God, but "Jesus" is just a code-word meaning deterministic ego-death, and the kingdom of God is the acknowledgement that God is the author of every thought past, present, and future.

o Real religion is not about mundane morality, or about bodily death and afterlife. Real religion, the heart and core of religion as such, is mystic experiencing. All terms can be interpreted in a mystical-only sense, with certainty, while being agnostic or even "atheist" regarding Literalist or Supernaturalist religion.

You say salvation is thorugh the simple belief and trust in Christ. I characterize that "belief and trust" as "purely spiritual actions", as opposed to, say, merit-accumulating physical actions. Salvation is through crucifying king ego, one's firstborn child -- that act of self-crucifixion is a "purely spiritual action" as opposed to doing some physical ritual such as animal sacrifice or literal child sacrifice.

The act of sacrificing one's lower self is an act done in recognition of no-free-will -- so that God is the ultimate hidden "doer" of that act. God gets ultimate credit for all action, and when you credit all your actions ultimately to God rather than ultimately to yourself, that amounts to the sacrifice of the lower self.

Here's a shortened version of one of the above links.

http://www.google.com/search?q=coleridge+opium+xanadu

>>For your information, there are only three things, you truly need to do to receive salvation:

>>1) Believe in Christ

>>2) Repent your sins

>>3) Be baptized into Christ

It's controversial to omit the Eucharist from this list. The two sacraments the Protestants retained are baptism and the Eucharist.

Re-conceiving Christianity as layer over core transcendent truth

>>>Because disgusted former Christians have seen the literalist point of view debunked or marginalized, instead of simply condemning the entirety of Christianity, they should take a look at some of the more esoteric points of view concerning personal transformation. Per Rumi, there would be no such thing as false gold if the real thing did not exist. Orthodox, literalist Christianity is false gold, but there was a true gold that it was an imitation of. Not many debunkers of Christianity are interested in learning about real gold, real religion. It can be difficult work.

>>The knowledge domains of existentialism, consciousness, solipsism, transcendental unity, and duality and mulitiplicity of the immanent are a better alternative to mythology, for expressing higher knowledge.

The work at hand is to re-conceive Christianity as a metaphorical layer over core transcendent truth, a core comparable to Platonism. There ought to be more discussion of Platonism. Christianity is Platonism for the masses.

If Christianity is flat wrong, and simply entirely untrue, then our work is finished and we can relax. If Christianity is a distortion of profound truth, then we have some amount of work to be done. Literalist Christianity is a distortion of transcendent truth. It is possible to straightforwardly, rationally systematize transcendent truth, and to add an optional mythic layer.

An ideal mythic system would enable sliding aside the mythic layer to show the universal core knowledge, which is also experiential knowledge including the mystic state as a mode of experiencing and as a source of conceptual insight or knowledge. Platonism was designed to be such a core knowledge, straightforwardly modelled.

>>Philo's work is Jewish Platonism, and it is loaded with pre-Christianisms. Practically every page shows precedent for some Christian idea. Philo is the motherload of "original sources" that pre-date Christianity and show that the latter is nothing but Judaism and Paganism combined and rehashed.

The official view of Christianity requires the premise that Paganism, the Jewish religion, and Christianity were all well-focused, non-overlapping areas. Actually, each was broad and diverse. If you assume the official interpretive framework and history, to say that "Chrisitianity" was formed by combining "Judaism" and "Paganism" is to affirm that Judaism and Paganism were focused, distinct, non-overlapping areas.

But within a more cautious and well-informed framework, Judaism and Paganism were diffused, broad, varied expanses of traditions that included a great deal of overlap. A Jewish blur and a Pagan blur served as sources, or a single varied expanse of sources, for what started as a Christian blur and was gradually focused into a more or less distinct area -- but Christianity has never actually been a single, distinct religion.

The Catholic hierarchy, which was not definitive of earliest Christianity, tried to force Christianity to coalesce into a single distinct religion, and part of that effort involved striving to portray Jewish religion as a single distinct tradition, which it never was, and to portray Paganism as a single distinct kind of religion, which it never was. Exoteric religions thrive on portraying all religions as distinct and focused. Esoteric religion thrives on blurring the boundaries and focusing on the overlapping areas.

>>What are the grounds for asserting that Christianity is Platonism for the masses?

Allegorically-inclined scholars who seek the universal truth expressed by Jewish or Christian religion typically hold this view.

>>How can Platonism be considered a straightforward, rational, and non-mythological description of transcendent truth?

Platonism, such as that of Plotinus, tried to minimize myth and get to the core of transcendent truth.

>>Christianity syncretizes elements of Judaism, Roman paganism, and gnosticism.

And everything else that was at hand, forming originally a variety of Christianities. The later, hierarchical Roman universal version of Christianity tried to define a single version of Christianity that would be the most useful for the hierarchical power-mongers.

>>The kind of Platonism that could be portrayed as rational, straightforward, and non-mythical is similar to the dualistic gnostic aspects of Christianity.

Platonism is the opposite of gnostic Christianity. Platonism tried to be non-mythological and straightforward, while gnostic Christianity tried to fully use mythological description of transcendent experiencing/knowledge. Gnostic Christianity is a poor example, a negative example, of rationally systematizing transcendent truth.

>>How is it possible to straightforwardly and rationally systematize transcendent truth if it's transcendent? The whole point of transcendence is that it is ineffable.

Transcendent truth is a matter of direct transcendent experiencing and transcendent conceptual insight. Ineffability is one aspect of one portion of transcendent truth, but the bulk of transcendent truth can be described systematically and rationally. Transcendence of something means simply being higher than something.

Transcendent knowledge or transcendent truth is that knowledge which is higher than daily mundane knowledge and ways of thinking, particularly knowledge and insights that is much more easily gained in the mystic altered state than in the default state of cognition.

>>One can only appeal to the existence of that which is transcendent.

Transcendent truth is first a matter of mystic-state experiencing, not ordinary-consciousness appeals such as logical postulation of things existing in the transcendent realm. A better expression would be "One can only appeal to the experiencing of that which is transcendent."

>Christianity is mythos employed for the sake of controlling the masses. We should ditch the mythos utterly.

Christianity is not only mythos employed for controlling the masses. That's a vulgar abuse of Christianity. At heart, Christianity is a metaphorical description of experiences and insights that are discovered during the mystic altered state.

Home (theory of the ego death and rebirth experience)